simon hunt an analyst said copper increase of consumption next year 2013, there's always the possibility of chinese stimulus coming out of the market and the u.s. markets turning around. i have some property that i own down in florida and there are places starting new construction, not apartment buildings, where i haven't seen it happen in about three and a half years. >> anthony, you said it at the top of the cast here, as long as china data is fueling the market, but i think the market's disappointed by china data. of course their growth is 6% to 7% and we're at 2 and it sounds good, but that big fuel to add to could beer was when china was 8%, 9% growth. i'll raise you a study according to international copper study group which polls 23 different countries that produce copper. they predict 2013 an excess of 458,000 metric tons of copper and look at china's imports, down 38% from december this year. i think copper needs a bit of a catalyst, hey, go to the chart, we're in a bit of a range. if you look at your numbers here, 3.70 to 3.85, until we get out of that range we need a catalyst